Curse

ShneakySquirrel · Apr 16, 2007, 04:38 PM // 16:38

Okay, well everyone knows that people say that spikes are there for ladder/rank farming. The thing about tournament play, is that you will know who you are going up against, and then you will be able to take the appropriate skills to beat that team.

With that being said, does that mean spikes are finally going to get recognized for having some skill? Something that will easily beat a spike, is interrupts. If you know a team is going to be a spike team, you bring the necessary things to beat it, and you still lose, what does that mean? Does that mean your team sucks? Or does that mean that the spike team was able to assess the situation and do other tactics to beat the interrupts?

I'm well aware of what most people think about spikes, but I'd like to hear what people say about a team who loses to a spike, when they should have the stuff to beat the spike.

Ensign · Apr 16, 2007, 05:40 PM // 17:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShneakySquirrel

With that being said, does that mean spikes are finally going to get recognized for having some skill?

Uh, no? What does knowing who your opponent is have to do with how much is demanded from a spiker in a typical spike build?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShneakySquirrel

Or does that mean that the spike team was able to assess the situation and do other tactics to beat the interrupts?

It means their build designer is sufficiently clued in to know how to make a spike build that is resilient to interrupts, and knows how to pick Jade Isle as their home map.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShneakySquirrel

I'd like to hear what people say about a team who loses to a spike, when they should have the stuff to beat the spike.

They're likely either not paying attention or not very good. When you know that counting down and pushing a button is the limit of your opponent's play, you're really in trouble if you can't capitalize.

Peace,
-CxE

DutchSmurf · Apr 16, 2007, 08:39 PM // 20:39

And don't forget that in most matches you will still have no idea what your opponent is running anyway.

Phelann · Apr 16, 2007, 08:51 PM // 20:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShneakySquirrel

My guild is trash and has only ever gotten anywhere with mindless 321ing. Please respect me.

You're still bad.

ShneakySquirrel · Apr 16, 2007, 08:54 PM // 20:54

In tournament play, you will.

And Ensign, I would like to say... that taking out an opponent is the only thing that has to be synchronized. The healing is much different than a balanced build, and when everyone has to monk as well as spike, and cancel their spike to infuse/prot etc, it gets a little more difficult.

I know that when I'm getting annoyed by a Ranger with interrupts, I call for an SoD on myself, so then I can call for a spike, and spike with them. I've been in balanced groups, and people say there is a constant relay of information. The same thing goes for spiking (B-Spike in this case), and from my experience so far... more information is being relayed. So how does that take less skill? and how is that brainless?

Wasteland Squidget · Apr 16, 2007, 09:12 PM // 21:12

The thing ATs will change about spike is that the decent teams will run it a bit more often. However skill-free it may be, spike does make a decent suprise tactic that can win a tournament match if your opponent doesn't see it coming.

As rating inflation sets in, spike teams will also have a harder time climbing the ladder. Once a spike team gets on Obs, people will start speccing against them in ATs and they'll eat enough losses that ladder play won't make up the difference.

Either way, 321spike remains a brainless tactic, and I don't foresee that changing anytime soon.

TheOneMephisto · Apr 16, 2007, 09:21 PM // 21:21

Agree with Squidget. Spike is decent to pull out once in a while vs. teams that are building against you, simply because it keeps other teams on their toes and guessing, and if they build against your regular build they probably won't be prepared for spike. (See EW FoC spike)

However, pure spike guilds will get rocked in tournament play, and will be limited to ladder play, which will be worthless.

You just got tomahawked · Apr 17, 2007, 12:21 AM // 00:21

You need to stop talking. I know what your doing. You're panicking because you b-spike'd your way from 1000 to 200 in 24 hours and now that AT's are coming out you're panicking because you think your guild doesn't have enough skill to beat anynoe with b-spike in AT's. So, stop farming the ladder get skilled people and run a non-gimmick. Don't think i don't know yall are running b-spike.

That is all.

ShneakySquirrel · Apr 17, 2007, 12:45 AM // 00:45

Err.... it's not that we are worried... and that we think we'll get owned... it's that what will YOU guys think about us, when people still lose to us even WHEN they know we are a B-Spike.

You guys say pure spike WILL get owned.... but if we win consistently, does that mean we still suck? Or does everyone whom we go against conveniently play poorly and make mistakes?

Razz L Dazzle · Apr 17, 2007, 02:55 AM // 02:55

Let me put it this way good guilds and good players never have to ask the community, "am i good?, "respect me because we're good players now." It is known, and since you have to ask then you've already answered your own question.

Phelann · Apr 17, 2007, 02:56 AM // 02:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShneakySquirrel

Err.... it's not that we are worried... and that we think we'll get owned...

you will.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShneakySquirrel

it's that what will YOU guys think about us,

we will know that you suck.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShneakySquirrel

when people still lose to us even WHEN they know we are a B-Spike.

haha. funny. you suck.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShneakySquirrel

You guys say pure spike WILL get owned.... but if we win consistently, does that mean we still suck?

the incorrect assumption here is that you will actually win consistently with pure spike versus good guilds when you are such talentless trash.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShneakySquirrel

Or does everyone whom we go against conveniently play poorly and make mistakes?

you just suck.

JR · Apr 17, 2007, 04:21 AM // 04:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShneakySquirrel

Err.... it's not that we are worried... and that we think we'll get owned... it's that what will YOU guys think about us, when people still lose to us even WHEN they know we are a B-Spike.

You guys say pure spike WILL get owned.... but if we win consistently, does that mean we still suck? Or does everyone whom we go against conveniently play poorly and make mistakes?

Didn't you guys the most losses out of any guild on the ladder a couple of seasons ago?

Patccmoi · Apr 17, 2007, 05:04 AM // 05:04

See, if you posted this AFTER winning consistently in tournament and beating some well established guilds there, i could understand the point of this thread. It'd be a sad attempt at having people recognize you, but at least it'd be somewhat 'legitimate'.

But now you didn't actually win anything and you come here posting 'what will you do when we beat all of you?' when about everything points to the fact that you won't atm. It's just meaningless.

321 closethread?

Zuranthium · Apr 17, 2007, 05:20 AM // 05:20

This is probably the best way to sum up the thread:

Although, I do feel a bit of pity that the poor guy is getting owned so hard. Just a little. *snicker*

~Z

ShneakySquirrel · Apr 17, 2007, 05:31 AM // 05:31

I'm hardly getting owned. You guys say it's talentless, and I highly doubt you'd be able to run a spike equally as well as a spike guild. It's a different style of play, and you bitch about it.

And Phelann, don't you feel a little silly posting "You suck" over and over? You have no legitimate argument.

And JR, we had the second most losses 4 seasons ago, but we also had the most GvG's and most wins.

ss1986v2 · Apr 17, 2007, 06:02 AM // 06:02

seeking praise for beating top tier guilds, before ever beating said guilds? this is high comedy!

agreed with pat:

3...
2...
1...

locked!

Saphrium · Apr 17, 2007, 06:10 AM // 06:10

I guess the flaming and anti flaming is what the OP is aiming for after all.
Well said above: "sad attempt to gain recognition from the community". Now I personally don't mind if this is intentional or not, but certainly it is an unsightly and have possibility for others to questions your motivation.

But I hope I am being as constructive as I can be and hopefully my words can enlighten you a little:

The fundamentals of a high level competitive gaming is a high level competitive gaming of the human minds, winning or losing in this particular case are not important, nor would it be recognized by a matured community. It is the light of human minds that is shown in a match that is really important, that means more than just taking down a target as quickly as possible. Try not to exploit the system, but play with signs of your intelligence and every time you make a movement or an action or using a skill at a particular time, you would let the observers say "wow, I didn't know this can be used this way" (Like how frenzy meta is used in GvG, it was a turning point in GvG meta I think), now that level of playing is not easily achieved, but you can try to shy away from 321 spike builds and restrain that habit of running one, it might take you further and truly open your eyes.

sir lockt · Apr 17, 2007, 06:39 AM // 06:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phelann

you just suck.

(I summarized your response

)

I taste some issues here... chill it. I hope you didnt lose from them?

To the OP:
Ofc spiking is for ladder grinding...and whatever you want to hear to feel good, its simple what will happen. Pure and dedicated spike guilds will be specced against.

Squid describes the only reason when spike is viable: as a surprise tactic. For the high ranked guilds spike is something they can fall back to in the last minute and therefore totally suprise an opponent.

Winning most and losing most isnt quite an achievement. At least I guess you have fun playing, but you cant hardly call it skill.

...Remember EWs second time they pulled of FoC spike. If I can remember correctly Kriegar (correct me if I am wrong) countered them solely with one CoF on burning island.

Every build that relies on the same skill and can be countered by one you can consider a gimmick with limited options, still I dont think it says something about your skill...

...It says something about your skill if you claim victories that still have to be fought. And ofc resign spikes show skill as well... especially when the lord is at 10 hp's

Patrograd · Apr 17, 2007, 08:41 AM // 08:41

Do we know yet if ATs will be played on random maps, or whether the lower ranked team will always be on their home map as per ladder? I am personally hoping for random maps, as this is more of a test of skill than having a build prepped for a map you know you are going to use.

The thing about tournaments I think is that in your group of 32 teams you are highly likely to have at least one top team, assuming a fairly random spread, and you are unlikely to face many, if any low ranked teams as these typically rely on guests to GvG. So you will always be facing "core" teams, organised, used to playing together, the vast majority I should think from the top 300. I am perfectly sure that even so blood spike will get some wins, possibly even more wins than losses, although I find it difficult to see many, if any tournament wins, as everyone in the last 8 will be ready for you, and almost by definition good teams

I dont have a great issue with spiking generally, if the level of your players is so low technically that it dictates that you need to run spike in order to achieve rank, then fair enough, go for it, play to win and all that. I'm not one of these people that will rage at a spike team after they beat me.

I think though that it is a little silly to try and pretend that you are spiking because it requires great skill, when everyone that has played spike (and I'm guessing all of us have at one time or another) understands that a spike team's rank depends almost entirely upon the skill of their caller, and that essentially you can run one top caller and seven random arena monkeys and get top 100 pretty easily given a little bit of time practising, and yes, assuming that you have a top caller you will likely beat even some good teams on the right map if they havent built specifically to counter spike.

Lets not pretend though that its the height of Guild wars achievement.

Wasteland Squidget · Apr 17, 2007, 08:50 AM // 08:50

Is this going to turn into another thread where [TARD] says bloodspike requires skill and everyone laughs at them? Because I think I've seen the ending of that one.